New Feature Idea - Level/raise land

[Beancounter]

Thanks to Grandma Ruth for suggesting a poll.

The game already has a bulldozer that allows you to level buildings.

What would you think of a new feature that would allow you to level, raise or lower land?

This would be an "in-game" feature (not the editor) with associated costs and trade-offs (to be discussed in detail if enough people like the idea)

[edbangor]

I like the idea, especially if you can create 'cuttings' through the lower hills rather than having some of the overly silly short tunnels the game normally creates.

The only question would be, to ask if it would create smooth lowering (ie it would also lower the tiles surrounding the one you want to lower) or if it would turn that tile into a cutting with sharp sides as would be more the usual case (if so could we have land sides as well, or is that just pushing my luck!)

[OilCan]

Are you thinking of a tool like in SimCity games? That would be helpful.

[Beancounter]

The only question would be, to ask if it would create smooth lowering (ie it would also lower the tiles surrounding the one you want to lower) or if it would turn that tile into a cutting with sharp sides as would be more the usual case

I was thinking of "a cutting with sharp sides". This would allow precise control over the area you wanted to alter. Although, the ability (option) to level/raise multiple tiles at once would be good for large area alterations.

[Beancounter]

Are you thinking of a tool like in SimCity games? That would be helpful.

Yep, that's right! Simcity was the inspiration for this idea.

[Barney]

Well it is more reality based. If you ever go to DC, you will see houses that are 4 stories tall, but only 2 stories above the street. This happened when the B&O as well as the Pennsy filled whole areas so the rails where at a perfect slope. In DC, you walk along the sidewalk and suddenly you have a railing. If you look down, you see the lower 2 floors as well as the parking lot for the building.

[edbangor]

I was thinking of "a cutting with sharp sides". This would allow precise control over the area you wanted to alter. Although, the ability (option) to level/raise multiple tiles at once would be good for large area alterations.

So in effect it is like the 'Ocean' tool in the editor which reduces the tile to ground level (0) without touching those around it, which is how I created the deep gully in "Ed Land" and the inactive volcano in "The Hub".

Of course, if you don't want it at 0 then there's the lake tool which can be used to create something at different hieghts, which , actually is something you are going to need rather than zero.

There should be a limit to how many levels you can flatten, or raise, something in the game to prevent building a cutting right through a mountian, as that would make tunnels pointless.

Oh, and while we're at it, if this is bought into the game, then there should be a way to turn off the option in the editor (and another for tunnels and suspension bridges).

[WPandP]

I voted in favor, but the curmudgeon in me says that there just isn't any way we're gonna get the kind of tool you're thinking of in RRT3. It was a feature that was high on my list when we were scoping out Rail Mogul, and I took the time to think through how the roadbed profile would have to function in order to make intelligent cuts and fills on the terrain model. Basically, it translated into the track model including a bit of a subroadbed, which could deform to meet the raw terrain as needed, which is a much different approach to how it is done in RRT3. In RRT3, the track model always sits above the raw terrain, and if this exposes a lot of "air" below the rails, then there is a kind of subroadbed that stretches downward to fill the gap. But I was going after a "balanced cut and fill" model that places the railhead a little further down and does as much stretching down (fill) as it does warping upward (cut) to create the terrace on which the track runs. The difference between these paradigms is subtle, but telling: the way RRT3 does it precludes ever cutting the raw terrain. The game engine simply has no way to do such excavations.

The post office trick isn't actually cutting the terrain, producing steep-sided cliff faces. Rather, it is warping the raw terrain into a new shape. This is why carefully graded tracks get messed up in late game due to building spawning; it would be preferable to have laid track stay put and impose a cut or fill through the terrain if that terrain gets later warped. The paradigm I was envisioning would allow for this, but in RRT3 there just isn't any way to change the way the track is dependent on the terrain.

I don't think I'd be all that thrilled about a tool that just creates level terraces (as the Post Office trick does now); rather, I'd want a tool that could create the targeted maximum slope that I am seeking, cutting as necessary then employing tunnels or bridges when you get to a threshold of vertical separation. But that's a much more complex tool, both to create and to use, and simply not possible in the RRT3 game engine, I'm afraid.

[Thunder Mnt RR]

wow so many problems with the tool already and it hasn't even been made and produced

[Grandma Ruth]

There should be a limit to how many levels you can flatten, or raise, something in the game to prevent building a cutting right through a mountian, as that would make tunnels pointless.

Wouldn't it be better to make the cost exorbitant? In real life, is there anything to stop a company building a cutting right through a mountain, except the cost? It should be up to the player's discretion if they want to spend that amount of money, as it is now with regard to tunnels and bridges. Isn't it part of the skill of the game?
Look at the Channel Tunnel - people said it was a complete waste of money, just another "prestige" Anglo-French project like Concord but as far as I know, it's making money and providing a good transport link now. So sometimes you might just have to be bold and spend the money up front!