Australian steam locos

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Australian steam locos Unread post

I probably wont be doing this quickly (a lot to learn) but at some point I'd like to have a go at doing some of the Australian steam locos. Most of them probably wont be too difficult, as they're not too complex (basic 4-6-2 etc).

However, one loco that would be an interesting project is the AD60. These are a 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garrett. Totally ugly suckers, but legendary (over here) for grunt. One of them was claimed to pulled a 1500 ton freight, including the two dead diesels that were supposed to be hauling it, from a standing start up a 2% grade without slipping. Their low axle loads were handy in a lot of places too, especially on branch lines that had timber bridges.

They were even used, in emergencies, to haul express cars as they were capable of over 60 mph. Obviously they were a little lacking in passenger appeal :mrgreen: but they got the job done. They were also very reliable, if not exactly economical. One of them (6009) clocked just short of a million miles over a 20 year service life.

So, I reckon this would be a worthy addition to the loco packs, and it is certainly something different. I realise it's going to be a bit of a mission, and will probably require cheating by combining a tender file and a loco file, and seriously mutating the results. Has anyone ever tried to make something like this?

Just so you can drool over its ravishing beauty and sleekness, here's a picture of one.

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And a basic profile drawing.

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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

There are a few others I'd like to do too. I figure a six pack would be good. Australians are always up for a six pack. So, as well as the AD 60, I'm thinking it should have these.

D50 2-8-0. These were the ones you grabbed when you just wanted a good, basic unit to haul any old thing anywhere. There were stacks of them, and the class had been in service for well over half a century by the end of steam in NSW. I remember these in daily use.

D57 "Lazy Lizzie" 4-8-2. These were a general purpose grunter, restricted to main lines due to their high axle load. They were nicknamed "Lazy Lizzie" because they made hauling anything seem like light work. They were very reliable, and had an unusual sound due to their three cylinder setup. You can hear one near the end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6gEjZYFs0M

C36 and C38 4-6-2. Express locos. The C38 was rather classy in streamlined version, although most were just bare. Some railwaymen claimed the older C36 was actually the faster of the two, and could top 90 mph on a long flat run. The C38 ran services scheduled to an average 70 mph, so was still not too slow. Both were good, reliable units.

Not sure about the sixth one.

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Hey, so then I started thinking about ones I wasn't so familiar with (meaning the ones that were used in other states when I was a lad). Should probably try a few of those too. Would have to include the Victorian S class (used for the Spirit of Progress) and the NM/C17 class (used for The Ghan). I knew about the names of the runs, but had never bothered looking up which locos they ran.

Spirit of Progress is this critter.

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Three hundred invited guests joined the train for the inaugural run, ranging from Attorney-General of Australia former Railways Minister Robert Menzies to Mr AO Henty, descendant of Edward Henty, the Victorian pioneer after whom the train's locomotive was named. The train reached 74 mph (119.1 km/h) against a headwind on the Down journey to Geelong, and on the return leg reached a new official Australian rail speed record of 79.5 mph (127.9 km/h) between Werribee and at Laverton before speed was cut to avoid stray livestock on an unprotected level crossing.
The Ghan NM looks like this.

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The original Ghan was notorious for washouts and other delays on the line, and the flatcar immediately behind the tender carried spare sleepers and railway tools, so that if a washout was encountered the passengers and crew could work as a railway gang to repair the line and permit the train to continue. This appalling service was tolerated because steam trains needed water, and Stuart's route to Alice Springs was the only one that had available water.
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

:-D Any kind of user made Beyer-Garrat would be most welcome in this game. But I think it really demands graphic skills to "build" it. Some kind of Beyer-Garrat would be useful in scenarios from Australia, South America, Spain and especially Africa. I really hope someday someone can create one :salute:
Altoona+BeachCreek

Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

Those are great ideas! You know, if we could coordinate the efforts of the big guys like Ned and Arop with your ideas, I bet we could get a really great looking streamliner based on that Henty engine. It reminded me of a lot of engines from the States, like the Hiawatha and the C&O's Chessie Hudsons. Almost any wheel arrangement could probably be made to work once the streamlined shell is finished.
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

Been thinking about this some more. After looking into the .3dp files for wheels, I'm now confident that I can easily code any number of wheels, in any arrangement, to scale. This means that the basic wheels for a 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garratt, or any other locomotive for that matter, are not a problem.

Most Garratts seem to have quite simple body shapes too, so that is handy. It should be possible to use an existing body as a basis, and just add the chassis girder underneath, etc. The detailing could get quite complex if trying for photo-realism though, since the number of pipes and things could burn up a lot of coding and Photoshop time. At some point you'd have to decide on a reasonable balance (unless you were mad).

I took a look at the .3dp files for the Challenger and Big Boy yesterday, just so I could see how the game devs handled modelling Mallets. It doesn't seem too bad (famous last words). It should be possible to model a Garratt by using the same principles. The Mallet models use a "front truck" that holds the cylinders, bogies, etc for the bits forward of the central pivot. Trucks can be added anywhere, and there isn't a limit of the number of them (as far as I can tell from reading WP&P's posts) so it should be possible to effectively model a Garratt as a "Mallet at both ends", if you see what I mean, with the boiler/body just hanging between the two instead of sitting half on top like it does with a Mallet.

The only real problem I can foresee (apart from the sheer amount of time it will take) is making the thing look realistic enough around corners. That could be tricky, given how the game handles pivot points to track and to other components. It's certainly possible to model a Garratt, but it may not be possible to get it looking really good when it's winding its way up your favourite mountain track, because the ends may tend to look derailed around corners. The way to find out is to try it with a very basic model first, then add the eye candy if it can be made to work well enough. !*th_up*!
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

Garratts... Yum! Wonder how they might handle the Tibet railways in Great China 4 scenario... :D
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

They'll handle it really well, if you give them unlimited free weight and pulling power in the coding. :mrgreen:

Just for a laugh, you could make one and code it so it drags off Shinkansens. ^**lylgh

Anyway, if the articulation can be sorted so it's realistic enough most of the time, doing two or three shouldn't be a lot more work than doing one. They're all much the same, really, and the bits that will need to be altered will already be documented after the first one.

I'll start with an AD60. It's standard gauge, so will not need any fiddling for width to match the scale of RRT3's other locos. The 4-8-4+4-8-4 is the most complex arrangement that ever ran in real life, and the length of the thing will test the limits of the concept with regard to RRT3's handling of pivot points. If a long one can be made to work, a short one should work better. So if I can get this beast working, anyone else should have a really good starting point for making one they like. !*th_up*!
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

Can't wait! :)
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

I've changed my mind about the AD60. After doing a fair amount of research into Garratts, I've decided I'm going to start at the other end of the Garratt timeframe.

The first one ever was the 1909 Tasmanian K1, but that wasn't for main line operation. The first Garratts for main line operation were the West Australian Class M, which were built in 1911 but didn't enter service until 1912.

The Class M were 2-6-0+0-6-2. From what I can gather, it seems that Garratts that lacked leading and trailing wheels each side of the drivers were not as successful. Apparently the lack of guidance caused track wear problems, particularly on corners, and could even result in derailing if it got too bad. Also, since one drive unit was always running "in reverse" it tended to lack stability if it had no leading wheels. Because of this, the vast majority of Garratts were built as 2-6-2+2-6-2 or 4-8-2+2-8-4 or whatever. So, those are the types I intend to model. Might as well do the useful ones. :mrgreen:

The first ones that had wheels in all the right places where the Tasmanian Government Railway Class L (2-6-2+2-6-2) and Class M (4-4-2+4-4-2). These are the ones I'm going to try first. They share exactly the same central unit, so in terms of modelling work I'll get two for the price of one. The central unit has shapes that will help ease of modelling too. They were also kinda cute and nicely proportioned, which is always a bonus. Even better, I've managed to track down the original 1911 plans from Beyer Peacock. ::!**!

These are good ones to have as functional units. The Class L 2-6-2+2-6-2 was a freight locomotive, and was basically the same unit that Beyer Peacock kept producing for smallish freight/mixed Garratts right through until the end of steam. Most of the later 2-6-2+2-6-2's were just minor variations on the Class L, for the simple reason that they pretty much got it right the first time. They were good little grunters, easy to look after, good on fuel, and very durable. So, if I make one of those it'll be useful right through the rest of the steam era.

I'll have to re-gauge it from Cape to standard to suit the scale/track in RRT3, but that applies to most Garratts anyway so I might as well get into it. I've taken a preliminary look at it and don't think it will present much of a problem. It can't just be scaled up by a factor of 56.5/42, because that would make it stupid large. Seems like the way to do it is some subtle cheating on the widths of front and rear units, with possibly slightly wider footplates on the central unit. That will allow moving the cylinders out. I may also slightly cheat cylinder bore size if it needs it.

The Class M is an interesting one. That was an express unit, and was the only 8 cylinder locomotive ever built. Four cylinders were outside in the usual places, and the other four were inside in inconvenient places. The inner ones used a rocker arm to actuate the valve gear. This all made it a nightmare to maintain, but as far as I can tell it wasn't unreliable as long as it was maintained. The reports I can find just grumble about the difficulty and cost of servicing, but don't grumble about it breaking down. It seems to have been reliable, with good speed and good haulage ability.

It actually set a world speed record for Garratts in 1912. Basically they just bolted it together, rolled it out onto the tracks, and promptly clocked 55 mph on a test run. (0!!0)
The Railway Gazette, 7 December, 1912 wrote:It is understood that as a result of a test run made with the Garratt passenger locomotive, referred to above, a speed of 55 miles per hour has been attained. The trial took place under the supervision of the Chief Mechanical Engineer, Mr. W. R. Deeble, on the section from Launceston to Deloraine, Tasmania, and was highly satisfactory from every point of view. The engine steamed and curved with exceptional steadiness and the speeds were registered by an automatic recorder.
Ok, so we gotta have one of those. Who wouldn't want a 1912 sports model Garratt in the pack? :mrgreen: Since a lot of the modelling will be the same for this and for the Class L, I figure start the Garratts off with one good freighter and one good express. Provisional plan is availability from 1912 onwards, with maybe a 1939/40 end date for the Class M and the L class carrying through until the late '50's.

I think the Class M's reliability should be modelled as Above Average, or possibly Good, but with much higher maintenance costs than the Class L. Class L reliability should be at least Very Good. Fuel economy for both should be decent. At a first guess, Average for the Class M and Good for the Class L sounds about right. Free weight and pulling power adjusted to suit, of course. Passenger rating should be Acceptable for the Class L, and just has to be Ultra Cool for the Class M.

I think I'll make top speed for the Class M 60 mph, on the basis that if it did 55 straight off the showroom floor it was probably was capable of a bit more on a good day. There are unverified reports of it topping 60, and it seems quite plausible. Top speed for the Class L should be around 40. That makes sense, based on equal steam capacity for both classses, differences in driver diameter, etc, etc. Acceleration of Above Average or Good for both sounds about right, given that they are basically double heading* a Prairie or an Atlantic, so they aren't going to be slugs when lightly loaded.

Anyway that's the plan. !*th_up*!


*By the way, since Garratts don't have separate tenders I cannot see any reason why it wouldn't be possible to do double headed Garratts, just like diesels and electrics are done. Not sure anyone will want to, but it should be possible as long as the Garratts can be modelled via one body and two trucks each (ie: not using up the tender slot).
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Re: Australian steam locos Unread post

Very interesting reading, thank you! :)

If any of you ever play my China 4 map for TM (still wondering whether it could be converted for ordinary RRT3...), one thing becomes evident. The need for reliable, economical mountain engines. I've often wondered whether Garratts of various kinds could have been ideal solutions there, or in neighbouring countries. Thanks to you, we'll possibly find out. (0!!0)

Were those beasts actually good for mountains? Or was their idea more about low axle weights for heavy trains on level ground and light track?
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