New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz

Creating and Editing Rollingstock
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

This is going to be fun. :-D

I have decided which electric locomotives I'm going to model. These are going to be the best electric locomotives ever. ^**lylgh

Edit: They are now not going to be "electric". See this post.

I was looking around for free plans, just because I like starting from plans. It makes things nice and easy because I can just drop the plans in as a background image and build the mesh over that. So I found plans for an old Danish freight steamer called Aslaug, which was built in 1927 and lasted for 40 years. She's a perfect generic example of the small freighters of the period, so will be good for RT3 purposes.

This will give us a nice, basic, cheap freighter for hauling stuff over the RT3 briny. I've made a start on the model already, and will play with it when I need a break while finishing off the Schools class choofer, along with roughing out the double freight cars for those that can be doubled.

For cargo that needs to move faster, like mail and pax and fruit or whatever, we need something slicker. This is where Biarritz comes in. She was one of the largest and fastest of the cross-Channel steamers owned by the UK railway companies, with great passenger appeal. I don't have actual plans for her, but I have enough photographic and technical information to do the job anyway.

Both of these will have a low top speed by land rail standards, but they'll never have to worry about grades and I'll give them decent acceleration, so they should still be quite usable. Provisional top speed for Biarritz is 40 mph, which is more than she could do in real life but enough to make her a useful fast steamer in RT3 without going mental on it. Aslaug will probably do about half that, which again is around 50% more than her real speed, but should still be ok for lower-priced freights which have a slow rot time. !*th_up*!
Aslaug_1.jpg
Aslaug_2.jpg
Biarritz.jpg
Last edited by Gumboots on Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

Just ran a basic test of this shipping idea for the map (960x640) I was thinking of. Set stuff up, and just let it run through the 25 years on max speed while I did something else.

Since I don't have the actual ship models exported yet I used one of the game's default electric locos (2D2) since it was about right for speed. That worked ok. It looks like even with fairly low speeds by land standards, it's still possible to make long hauls across oceans reasonably profitable. The longest run was from Southampton down to St Malo. Even that was making decent money, despite St Malo being a bit out in the boondocks and the trip taking several months of RT time. This is good, and means it's not necessary to go with insane speeds for ships on largish maps.

I also tested using a setup event to set oil and sand consumption to -100%. The idea here is that the ships will be slow enough anyway without having to stop for stuff all the time, and it doesn't make sense for them to need sand anyway, so just keep their stops to basic station turnaround time and forget about topping up the oil. It will also save clutter around the ports/stations, which are going to end up quite cluttered already. IRL ships do thousands of miles without stopping for oil anyway, so I figure they can do the same in RT3.

What I found was that setting oil consumption to -100% doesn't actually reduce it to zero. What it does is reduce the rate of consumption to between 1 and 2% per year. I think this is another coding safeguard against divide by zero errors, similar to the way the possible -100% cost on Connies in the Chile scenario only ended up bringing them down to $2k instead of zero. That's still fine, since over a standard scenario length it will only chew through about 40% of the initial oil, leaving about 60% for good reliability over 25 years or so.*

I'll get a fairly basic playable hull model sorted soon, so I can double check the hiding of the consist inside the hull around corners, and also see if there are any other problems I haven't thought of. Given the size of these things they are going to be beasts to skin within the constraints of a 1024x1024 image, but I think it's doable.

Short version: this ship concept is going to be workable in play, once a few minor skinning issues are sorted. !*th_up*!

PS: Had a brainwave. There's no need to do ships as electric locos. They can be done as steam or diesel. In fact, for pre-1904 shipping (which someone will want to try sooner or later) any ships would have to be done as steam or diesel anyway since the game won't recognise the existence of electric track before 1904. It allows you to lay electric track via the editor in 1830, but for loco-running purposes treats it as normal track until 1904.

So, the new plan is to just use "electric track" to lay down the shipping lanes, so that it can be skinned as ocean rather than as railway track without affecting the normal land tracks, but to not bother about electric locos to run on the sea tracks. The ships can just be steamers, as they would have been, with all necessary adjustments and with locomotive availability set by territory. This will be the only way of doing it pre-1904, so might as well do it that way for any period. !*th_up*!

*Oh yeah, some other things I found when checking trains at game end, as well as keeping an eye on breakdowns during the game. It seems that faster locomotives break down more often for the same nominal reliability rating, and also that faster locomotives and/or heavier locomotives chew through oil, water and sand faster than slower and lighter locomotives. The difference isn't enough that you would usually notice with standard length runs between stops, but when testing over decades with no maintenance stops it becomes obvious.

For example, with the "ship maintenance" event just being a blanket case for this first test, and applying to all locos everywhere, a P8 will run for well over 30 years while pulling full 8 car consists, without running out of water, while a Schools class will be out of water after about 27 years and will break down far more often than the P8, even though both have the same reliability rating. The reliability rating of the Schools class also deteriorates faster, reaching a level of breakdown probability after 27 years that takes the P8 takes about 33 years. Berkshires are even worse on water, sand and oil, and are also a lot heavier, but are about as reliable as the Schools class, which I put down to the Berkshire being a lot slower.

This would also explain why the default Mallard is such an unreliable piece of crap even though its nominal reliability rating isn't too bad. The thing goes like a rocket, so if the game is coded to penalise fast locos it makes sense it'd be unreliable.
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

Got Aslaug fairly well knocked into shape. Stern still needs a bit of work since those old style sterns are quite complex shapes but the bow is 99% sorted. Poly count is still very low at the moment, and will probably come in about the same as a default PopTop loco by the time it's finished. Size is just long enough to take a full consist of 16 doubled-up box/reefer/fruit cars (all three are about the same length). This is also long enough to take 8 express coaches if that's ever required.

This also allows plenty of space for 16 of any of the hoppers, apart from the C era bauxite hopper and the D era coal hopper. B bauxite and C coal are fine, but C bauxite and D coal are way too long for doubling up. Might leave those as singles, or might tweak them to shorter body lengths. Not sure yet.

Anyway one tramp steamer coming up. I rather liking this. (0!!0)
Aslaug_models.jpg
Aslaug_16_box_cars.jpg
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

This is all proving rather interesting. !*th_up*!
Hawk
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

Yeah it's something different to add a bit of new interest to the game. I'm enjoying myself, in case you hadn't noticed. :mrgreen:

Before trundling off to bed for the night I couldn't resist roughing out Biarritz as well. I know a bit about naval architecture and have a good grasp of the differences in hull shape between the two, so I knew how to mutate the Aslaug hull quickly and easily to get a pretty good Biarritz hull. Again, still needs a bit of tidying up around the stern, but it otherwise in the ballpark.

She's a bit longer than Aslaug and a bit narrower, and not nearly as full in the ends, but will take the same consists if necessary. I figure it makes sense to have them both handle any consist of the period, just for extra versatility if it's ever needed. !*th_up*!
Basic_Biarritz_1.jpg
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

Threw a basic skin on her so I can get in-game testing underway. A beta version of RT3's biggest steam locomotive will be available soon. This thing's gonna make the Big Boy look tiny. ^**lylgh

I think it will actually be possible to get passable skin detail on it too, although obviously some parts of it will get a tad blurry at close range. Anyway, pix.
Biarritz_basic.skinned_1.jpg
Biarritz_basic_skinned_2.jpg
Just as a guide to size, these ships are just large enough to hold four Big Boys, with their tenders, all in a row without them poking out through the ship's sides. I wasn't worried about stowing locos and tenders on board. That's just the size they worked out for handling full cargo consists. !*th_up*!
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

Ok, so I just commandeered the 2D2 files and threw Biarritz's body, skin, track points, and length points into UserExtraContent as a quick test. Haven't skinned the electric track yet, and will also need to drop the model slightly so its waterline is sitting at sea level instead of at track level. Those are easy enough to do. However it runs, and it runs across ocean, as long as you lay the track by setting ocean to land while laying, before setting back to ocean for play. !*th_up*!

The good news is that it generally works well, as long as you give it large radius corners. Going around hairpin turns it looks pretty silly. :mrgreen: However, there is one glitch so far, and that is that although I set the rear length point to way up near the front of the ship, the cargo is still attaching at the 0, 0, 0 X, Y, Z point that is always halfway along the ship. I'm not sure if this is because the game won't recognise rear attachment points that are forward of zero.

[Murphy] This would be inconvenient, so is probably true. [/Murphy] :roll:

Anyway, if that is the case I can probably get around it by shoving the "loco body" way back so it is starting just in front of where the cargo cars attach. Will have to mess around with it a bit, but I still think it's doable.
Ship_ahoy_1.jpg
Ship_ahoy_2.jpg
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

This could make for some rather interesting scenarios.
Hawk
User avatar
Gumboots
CEO
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:32 am
Location: Australia

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

::!**! Got it sorted. Turns out the game is fine with the "loco body" being shoved way back relative to the 0,0,0 point. This fixes the consist attachment point. !*th_up*!

Just for reference, normally with a loco model you'd have 0,0,0 close to halfway along the model, with your length points set to slightly longer front and back than the extremities of the loco. There are small exceptions are for things like cab roofs overhanging tenders slightly, where you'd set the loco's rear length point slightly inside the roof overhang (length point files define where the next or previous car hooks on).

Anyway, doesn't work with ships because you need the consist attaching up near the bow. This means the rear length point would normally be at a -Y value of several hundred, but the game won't recognise Y values of less than zero for rear length points. So, set rear length point to zero and shove the whole loco body aft by that several hundred units. Front length point can be right on the bow, or near enough to it (doesn't matter much for this).

Front track point will be about where the front of the first cargo car goes. Rear track point will be about where the end of the last cargo car goes for a max length consist. These define where the loco attaches to the track. What seems to happen with the long ship models is that it will stick the front track point to the track exactly, but the rear one is a bit looser and the stern will swing around a bit over kinks in the track. I've attached a shot showing roughly how tight you can go on track radius before the consist will start peeping out sometimes.

Also, since the track surface is raised above sea level, the ships need to be modeled so that their waterline is at about minus 5.5 units on the Z axis. It could nail it down exactly by trial and error loading of models in the game, but 5.5 is pretty close, so I'm going to use that as a basis and just extend the model slightly below that. This sits the model down on the track some, but once the tracks are skinned for shipping lanes it should look fine. It'll give a fair simulation of the ship's bow and stern waves, so will look about right.
8_express_consist_loading.jpg
Consist_and_length_points.jpg
Track_radius_shot.jpg
Gumbootz Lokomotivfabrik und Bierkeller

LMR Samson 0-4-0 - Pennsy H3 Consolidation - Custom double tank cars set
User avatar
Hawk
The Big Dawg
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am
Location: North Georgia - USA

Re: New steam (not electric) locomotives: Aslaug and Biarritz Unread post

I don't think a ship would turn much sharper than that, if that sharp, so that looks good.
Hawk
Post Reply