Drums of War

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
RayofSunshine

Drums of War Unread post

Well Petunia,
I guess I "shot off my mouth" in the Aftrican Dreams, this being the same terrain, so will just extend a welcome to the "user creators". Always anxious to see what imagination a creator will add to the challenges of play. As I have mentioned in previous threads, I will always attempt to play a scenario, no matter of my preferences, as I believe it customary to acknowledge the creations, after a user creator has taken the time and imagination to let others have the enjoyment. Am looking forward to your future creations. :salute: {,0,}
belbincolne

Re: Drums of War Unread post

Has anyone played this scenario? If so can they explain it please. I find it totally beyond me as I cannot stop the enemy getting more and more control nor carry many of the goods required. I've had 2 starts both equally bad. In the latest the main requirement being to carry weapons I connected to a town where there were plenty and loaded a train to where I was told there was a demand at +$31 but (being in 1.05 not 1.06) the train wouldn't load because weapons couldn't be carried profitably. I've stopped at this point as I dont like beating my head against a brick wall.

In a previous try from a different start I was able to run a hugely profitable railroad but never managed to carry more than an incredibly small number of the required goods.
Wolverine@MSU

Re: Drums of War Unread post

I've just discovered this one and am about 12 years into it. I think I took the 6M cash at the first choice. To quell the uprising, you have to haul weapons to Zanzibar (8 per year on expert). My seed gave me a steel mill in Juba, with a few coal mines nearby and iron mines not too far away. There was also a munitions factory there (ammo to Kampala is also a goal). I connected up the sources to get the mill rolling and hauled ammo at first. I think I built a weapons factory there (Right next to the steel mill and munitions factory), but also used a lot of money to buy industries at the cut-rate price. Rubber was nearby, so a tire factory was able to supply the weapons factory, making weapons that could go to Zanzibar. You have to expand the railway system to get things flowing, but also spend some money on buying up insdustries/mines/farms etc. as they become profitable. I didn't worry too much about the 6 country-specific goals for the first several years (but you do have to pay $1M each to gain access) but instead focussed on getting to Zanzibar by going across the mtns. via Nairobi rather than around, although I did eventually hook-up via Dodoma way. ROI on industry is really good, so I spend about 1/2 of my yearly profits on it, issue stock every year to start with, and max out bonds. I used all electric track and the E18 exclusively. There are lot's of things to balance but once you get rolling, profits are good; I'm taking in around $20M per year. After upgrading the steel factory I had enough to supply another weapons factory in Mambasa, so I am able to supply well over 8 weapons per year. I'm playing in 1.05, so I had to do the "bait and switch" a couple of times to get the weapons to move, but hauling them out of Zanzibar helps (sometimes they'll go to Nairobi), but I also saw that my big station in Zanzibar had a lower price than right next to the barracks/military bases, so I built a spur and put a small station on the highest-priced cell; that got weapons moving again. Once I got that set up, I started working on country goals. Some are easy (lumber out of Sudan) but others take constant attention (Troops to East Africa, Clothes to Ethiopia), but I'm making pretty good progress.

Hope this helps
BigBoyTycoon

Re: Drums of War Unread post

Really good point @Wolverine.

What I did was choose the better credit rating, borrowed 10 mill and had 16.5$ millions on pause. Then i bought a mix of industries, and access to all countries, and then slowly tried finding a balance so i could make money, pay off all the rents, and still do the goals, by starting production of a couple steel mills, loads of munition facotries, weapon factories, half away from the map. I first focused on zanzibar many years later. I tried doing the country goals first mostly to get the industry set up correctly so i could still make money. I ended up having a 6 rail track (3 doubble tracks) as my rails were very busy in one of my stations. Then when i made around 5-7 million a year in profit i was sacrificing many trains with millions in debt per year, but i made 9+ deliveries of weapons to zanzibar, aand was able to get 0% (full control) back, all 6 countries was easily done. In a huge circle around the big lake when looking at the map. Just a ton of diesel trains around, it was a huge mess, but what do you expect with all those monkeys in the jungle :mrgreen:

Anyway ended up with all goals completed, but the 1000 deliveries of troops, ammo, and weapons only got around 500-800. SO it was a silver - i could have used the trick for spamming cargo hauls by creating chokepoints + adding stations diffrent places on the line, but after doing it for a year or so i deleted all my stations as i felt terribly bad about it XD. Oh well ended up getting a silver the "legit" way. So im quite happy about that. I felt that was the goal, as im using 1.05 and i WILL not do that little trick i do like the common statragy is, just no point or fun in doing so. So by that i got gold in my mind *!*!*!

Its definitely a very very intterestign scenario, EXTREMLY FUN!, but also very very confusing in the beginning. I only tried once, and just had a blast with my first go at it on expert. So really fun. So many ways to play it. I just loved listening to those monkeys while my trains drove past :3 I love the atmosphere and graphics in RT3. Simply amazing. And thanks to Paul, the creator for this wonderful scenario! !$th_u$! Will try his African dream now, even though this already felt like a dream playing the Drums of war! :twisted:

Oh yeah and i actually tried to be kicked off chairmanship by foolishly buying issuing stock while buying with my own money like a fool *!*!*! Was good fun seeing the ai ruin my company though xD
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RulerofRails
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Re: Drums of War Unread post

antso22, good to see you have been enjoying more maps! !**yaaa I have completed this map in the past, but didn't give it a write up. I must say that the Poptop guys did a nice job of painting maps, I guess they were paid to do it. Only recently with the method of painting maps from satellite image have the fan made maps caught up to this standard. I wish the same could be said of Poptop's event scripting and seeding balance, but the re-dos of their maps such as this are very enjoyable maps to play. (I also recommend Gilded Age based on the Building to Buffalo map.) Some of the previous posters were talking about 1.06. That's confusing cause this is a 1.05 map. It could be played in 1.06 with an advantage, but that isn't what the creator intended.

It was awhile since I played this one, so I don't remember my strategy too well. I do remember focusing on getting Steel pumping near Juba followed by Weapon and Ammo shipments to Zanzibar early on. My original track skirted eastward around the largest mountains. The haul counts are high here. BTW, good effort for your first play. In my play I didn't restrict trains from running between barracks (necessary for the troop goal) and military depots. This means that weapons and ammo were moved around the map by mean of the auto consist selection without my help (recycled naturally). I don't think that this is cheating cause weapons especially (and some ammo) get shipped around to different areas with troops for training and deployment.

I don't remember having problems with the troop goal either. Provided most of the cities with barracks are connected in a reasonable amount of time, there should be enough troops to make the goal. Something to watch is if the troops want to travel, but their value is lower than some of the other cargo that the computer will load on the train in preference to troops. There are two things I would suggest to help build that count honestly:
1. Buy a few more trains to service cities with barracks. Troops like to do small hop distances as much as traveling between more remote barracks.
2. It takes more effort, but, since this is 1.05, using the custom consist with 2 or 3 loads of troops and the rest any cargo. This will ensure that troops board the train even if they are paying 10k per load and the rest of the train is full of meat paying 20k per load.

Tip: Don't buy access rights with bond money if you aren't going to make an investment (industry or rail) in that newly opened country. You will be charged interest, but get nothing to pay that chunk of interest down. There are some special situations where this could still be a strategic play, but not a good principle. Sorry if I misunderstood and this isn't what you meant in your post.
BigBoyTycoon

Re: Drums of War Unread post

RulerofRails wrote:antso22, good to see you have been enjoying more maps! !**yaaa I have completed this map in the past, but didn't give it a write up. I must say that the Poptop guys did a nice job of painting maps, I guess they were paid to do it. Only recently with the method of painting maps from satellite image have the fan made maps caught up to this standard. I wish the same could be said of Poptop's event scripting and seeding balance, but the re-dos of their maps such as this are very enjoyable maps to play. (I also recommend Gilded Age based on the Building to Buffalo map.) Some of the previous posters were talking about 1.06. That's confusing cause this is a 1.05 map. It could be played in 1.06 with an advantage, but that isn't what the creator intended.

It was awhile since I played this one, so I don't remember my strategy too well. I do remember focusing on getting Steel pumping near Juba followed by Weapon and Ammo shipments to Zanzibar early on. My original track skirted eastward around the largest mountains. The haul counts are high here. BTW, good effort for your first play. In my play I didn't restrict trains from running between barracks (necessary for the troop goal) and military depots. This means that weapons and ammo were moved around the map by mean of the auto consist selection without my help (recycled naturally). I don't think that this is cheating cause weapons especially (and some ammo) get shipped around to different areas with troops for training and deployment.

I don't remember having problems with the troop goal either. Provided most of the cities with barracks are connected in a reasonable amount of time, there should be enough troops to make the goal. Something to watch is if the troops want to travel, but their value is lower than some of the other cargo that the computer will load on the train in preference to troops. There are two things I would suggest to help build that count honestly:
1. Buy a few more trains to service cities with barracks. Troops like to do small hop distances as much as traveling between more remote barracks.
2. It takes more effort, but, since this is 1.05, using the custom consist with 2 or 3 loads of troops and the rest any cargo. This will ensure that troops board the train even if they are paying 10k per load and the rest of the train is full of meat paying 20k per load.

Tip: Don't buy access rights with bond money if you aren't going to make an investment (industry or rail) in that newly opened country. You will be charged interest, but get nothing to pay that chunk of interest down. There are some special situations where this could still be a strategic play, but not a good principle. Sorry if I misunderstood and this isn't what you meant in your post.
Hello again Mr RulerofRails! Always a pleasure since i first met you on here, you´re a little older than me on this place afterall, and you love sharing of your knowledge and experiences, even if you can´t remember completly how you did it. !!jabber!! I really appreciate it !!clap!!

I finished all the hard scenarios i could, curently doing alternate USA. (alot easier than i thought) and just finished southern pacific - an extremly easy map, it said it was hard. but it was more annoying than hard xD. And now i finished mr paul the creator of Drums and war, African Dreams on expert gold. Alot easier but just as fun. Will upgrade to 1.06 soon and try the map you suggested me earlier :>

Anyway about your update here: I think i played the same way as you, like i only bought into countries when i was gonna do something, for example setting up textile mills and trains to do the clothes goal. Mkaing a profit etc. I did have specific trains a like 2-6 maybe usually 4 of the specifc cargo to do the goals. And ignored any other profit - relying on profit on my industries. As even though im sure you could accumulate hundreds of millions, its not really needed. So my 5-7 million profit is just fine with a huge loss of millions up to 20+ or more millions per year because of inefficeny as long as the goals are met. Thats what its about afterall.

I wish there was an easy way to spot barracks in RT3. I did try and link up all cities. But i gotta admit im still a novice about troops. as sometimes it will sya 3 loads want to get to 3 cities on the map with 3 loads each place. but when i deliver to the first place the others dissappear. I assume its because they all just wanted to get that way to get to the correct barracks as trains were running between all cities. So of course thats why. Just a tad annoying like the passenger spike problem with passengers showing up even to cities not connected without telling you to which. And making specific express trains are rarely worth it for me. Ofc if i get 20+% premium train i´ll copy it and dedicate the specific train to express. As going from ugly to ultra cool + dining car + premium can give you 85% increase compared to an ugly train without anything (15% per ugly to acceptable + 15% to looks sharp + 15% to ultra cool and 20 + 20%) Which ofc is fantastic. Anyyway back to my point.

1. Did you get the 1000 goal? Perhaps i should try like you, and put alot more trains and connect to alot more stations and just put random cargo like you said and make the weapons and ammo spread around the map like that.
2. When using the custom consist, its not even always it picks troops. Do you mean put like 2-3 cargos of troops and put it to minimum one - and then rest ANY CARGO? Sorry if im asking a stupid question.
3. How many trains would you suggest between citities? As i also need to focus on the country goals. Allthough they could get done this way too perhaps.
4. Im sometimes scared of my products being consumed, but i should keep in mind in this map weapons and ammo wont be consumed, or at least i dont hope so by the civilians :P
5. Do you do express/freight trains? like one of each between a city? i tried this but didnt see much diffrence.
6. Do you do long train rides? i found out this is nessasary to ensure frieght gets moved around properly - thereby needing to make aloooot more tracks than just double track.
7. One of the reasons i dont do so many trains on this map between cities is because 1. i dont need the profit. 2. im scared it´ll cluster my already clustered trains.
8. do you rename stations and trains to help you know specific ones?

I remmeber, not sure if you or anyone else know it - but there was this HUGE pdf file about rt3, a guide. it was the most amazing guide. 100+ oages or so by a player who wrote it. Not sure if you know where to find it? i love reading it just for the sake of it and i find it fun.

Hope its not too many questions but i+d love to know from the RulerofRails, i love listening to such an experienced player. So hopefully you can help me out here. I consider myself an extremly good rt3 player, but in here, im just a mere child. Oh well got my childhood back can´t complain about that i suppose! !**yaaa
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Hawk
The Big Dawg
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Re: Drums of War Unread post

antso22 wrote:Will upgrade to 1.06 soon and try the map you suggested me earlier :>
Before you do, you might want to read this topic about multiple installs. ;-)

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=2363
Hawk
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RulerofRails
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Re: Drums of War Unread post

I don't claim to have it all down. I view the game mainly from a strategy viewpoint. There is always a new technique or different timing to try. The complicated strategies aren't always better than the simpler ones either. Adapting the strategies I know work to the map I am playing is great fun. I also tend to look for the quickest methods, so don't tend to focus on passengers very often (in the 1800s there are plenty of exceptions) as I find that a good system takes some years to build up and doubling tracking is often required to run the extra trains. BTW, good reminder on the revenue increase available for the express trains. I didn't realize there was that much difference. (I will have to look for it, but I think the total difference may be only 60%, which is still a big difference.) One of the best tricks I know for rails is to study the map overlays to find where the economy is the strongest, with a focus on hauling processed cargo (Goods, Meat, Cheese, . . . etc.). Processed cargoes especially Meat and Cheese develop a 20-30k price difference per load pretty quickly giving a nice profit.

The guide you are thinking of is most likely "A Handbook to RT3" by Oilcan available about halfway down this page. It is an excellent resource. It goes into company and train management and industry investment very well, but plays the financial aspect safe. I often make more risky financial plays. On the other hand, I view it as cheating to try to "steal" a cargo stream from an existing industry. I may cut off streams that are going right across the map, but if there is one Lumber Mill with 5 logging camps that are close enough the camps are turning a profit, I will never plonk a competing Lumber Mill down in a slightly better spot. It would give me more profit, but this seems so low to me. It can be argued that trains do a similar thing ("stealing" cargo from one factory for another), but I hardly ever buy single input-single output (simple) industries that don't get a natural supply of resources without a rail connection.

I agree Alternate USA isn't really that difficult. Last play, I only had to monitor Corn, the rest of the cargoes took care of themselves as I had a single city where I built enough industry to consume all the cargo I needed to haul in (example 4 upgraded breweries on one square in one of the cities in Texahoma). Having a simple strategy makes this one fun, otherwise it can be a hair-pulling experience. Shattered Union is based on this map, is easy, but has an interesting premise to get rid of the AI. I got lucky on this one and completed it in 4 years. Might be fun to try it when you finish Alternate USA. Will try to think of some of the harder maps. Not many players like to play in time-attack mode, so the hardest maps generally turn out to be medium difficulty. Most maps I get the goal in 1/2 to 2/3 of the time given, and play against my best time instead of to get the goal in time for the medal. There are a couple others I can think of for 1.06: Chile, Michigan1830 (like Panama Canal, there is a Platinum medal available for the best players), and Denver & Western. Trainmaster is also a challenge I would put on your horizon for one day. There aren't many maps, but game-play is more complex and challenging. Hawk's tip is good advice, many of us have 3 separate installations (1.05, 1.06, and TM). Reason: they aren't fully compatible.

How to find the barracks? Go to the map overlay for Weapons or Ammo. In this scenario some warehouses demand both cargoes, otherwise green triangles will be barracks or military depots. Smaller triangles will be barracks and larger ones military depots. It becomes pretty easy to find them with a little practice.

1. Yes, I got the goal. Random trains aren't the best idea. They will most likely run at a loss. Just a few running between the cities with barracks will work best for weapons and ammo. Troops do like to travel to cities without other barracks, so an extra train or two running general service from the city with barracks will help this goal. You don't need heaps extra.
2. Yes. The idea of using the custom consist is to make sure any troops available get on the train instead of sitting in the station while other cargo that is more profitable is hauled before they are. They may disappear while waiting. I wouldn't put them on wait-to-fill. Think of this train as a 5-car train, with the potential to run with 3 loads of troops whenever they are available. This way the train is making money, and all the troops are still getting hauled. Every now and then, a quick check to see where troops want to go will keep this running smoothly. Sometimes the troops may want to travel back to the barracks so it may not be a bad idea to run maybe 2 coming back as well.
3. Train density depends on cargo density. If using custom consists (efficient) maybe 1 or 2 extra trains than normal. With maybe 2 running between each barracks (substantial distance, 1 for close). Remember that troops are like passengers, they build up over the years. The trains between the barracks only need to be bought once prices at one of the barracks are orange from oversupply. So, don't buy them all at once. Add them as time passes and traffic builds up.
4. You will realize pretty quickly where they are consumed by the map overlay. You are right, the general public has no demand for them. The idea of hauling between barracks is to help demand on the map, instead of directly adding to your haul count. Thing of it as a string. As price drops at one place, cargo is moved to the next destination and so on spreading across the map for consumption. This cuts out some long hauls that cost a pretty penny in fuel costs. Consumption is necessary to keep demand high. (I think I did do the long haul to Zanzibar and distributed from there.)
5. It was awhile since I noticed if troops are loaded on express trains. I think they are? Anyway, I wouldn't bother with this. I generally wait till the later stages of a map until I have a double-tracked line before trying to set up special express runs. Your reminder about the extra bonuses available from the speed record trains makes me want to set some up again though. There needs to be a certain amount of traffic to make this worthwhile for me. Other players are much more into express, so it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
6. I try to avoid it, but for some of the goals here it is necessary. When done it should mainly be for finished products. Resources are best processed at nearby industrial facilities (factories). I don't think I ever had more than double track here. A better solution would be a double-tracked more direct mainline which doesn't pass through the cities. Cities tend to be choke points.
7. Fair enough. Maybe more specific and a few less will work better. How many did you have?
8. On occasion. Normally this is a sign of too much management on my part so I will try to find an automated solution.

Glad you are having so much fun with the game! This turned into a pretty LOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG post. :-P Hope you get some ideas from it. :salute:
BigBoyTycoon

Re: Drums of War Unread post

Thank you soooo much RulerofRails for that excellent, long post. You´re a great great guy! I really appreciate this! !$th_u$!

On to your post -> I wish there was quadrable track or triple track in this game or something. Or they made rt4 with this. But you can get around it by later in the game deleting track and making it more efficient, i dont make it super efficient at first because its too expensive. But later on you can use many ways to enter cities or do shortcuts etc. In my biggest citties i´ll also always have 4-5 big stations so i can have sooo much profit.

One thing i also noticed is people tend to use medium or small stations if they can get away with it. The way i see it is, in the long run large runs are better + it covers more area to be supplied even if there is nothiing it covers those lovely green squares. It makes a huge difference i think :)

Yes it was exactly that book i was talking about! Thank you thank you thank you! I LOVE THAT ONE! I know its super weird. but even though i know everything a manual says i love re-reading it just to do it. I love it. I have read some manuals to games over 100 times over the years. Just enjoy it and sometimes discover something new even when we thin kwe know it all we dont really know it all, you know? *!*!*!


I really like the playstyle and moral and ethics you mention. Its just very fitting with how i do it aswell :) I really think you and I play almost the same identical way from the sound of it. Or lets say the best way just to brag for a sec !*th_up*!

I had another go at Drums of war on expert today and this time i easily managed to get gold and have over 50% more of hauled things, the country tasks done twice or more, and the hauling wass on 1500 or so. And then with a quite few years left, with tons of money and where i just let things run and wanted to finish i was done. Soooo easy. I noticed the second time now i checked for barracks and just in general focused wayyy more on supplying and buildning. Just a wonderful thing. I love this scenario and i am very proud to get this gold medal on expert now it took so long. Thank you so much for giving me the hope of trying again as it paid off :)

A really fun note is that you mention you beat MOST scenarios with 1/2 or 2/3 of the time left and you compete with yourself - like, wow. Thats EXACTLY what i do too! And in the same time as you either 2/3 or sometimes like go west etc with 1/4 of the time. The AOS ones was about half the time. Competing with yourself is the best, and i love it when i can kick my own ass and beat a record i thought was unbreakable !**yaaa

Another thing to add to our informative posts is i see alot of people want to buy first tier indsries first like logging camps, farms etc. i always go for second or third tier factories so the goods gets processed before the final processing. it makes alot more money than the usual 10-20% you can get.

I also find it tedious to rename staions and trains - i only do it if i cant find the bloody station among my trillion other ones XD.

Thanks again for all your tips and givng me this gold medal! i really love this scenario especially since i only tried it to see how much i´d fail in this crappy scenario which turned out to be my probably favorite all time, and thats me who usually hate those weapon/ammnution troop goals usually! :lol:
OilCan

Re: Drums of War Unread post

antso22 wrote:I really like the playstyle and moral and ethics you mention....you mention you beat MOST scenarios with 1/2 or 2/3 of the time left and you compete with yourself
You will find that RulerofRails truly lives up to his name: he is one of the best players that I have encountered on this forum. His insight into the strategy of a game is amazing. His understanding of the nuances & performance of industry as a universe is superb, only equaled by his adeptness & speed in building a rail network. I have not met a player who purposefully ties his own hands behind his back and can still master a game in lightning speed like RulerofRails.
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